I watched the confirmation hearing of Lori Chavez-DeRemer for Secretary of Labor so you wouldn’t have to. You can listen to the actual two and a half hour hearing here, or read my raw live-posting on Bluesky here. And you can read my analysis below.
As I wrote yesterday, Chavez-DeRemer went into this hearing with Democrats angry about Trump and Musk’s rampage through the government, and particularly the Department of Labor and National Labor Relations Board. And some Republicans, like Rand Paul (R-KY) are concerned about her previous support for the PRO Act which would have made labor organizing easier and weakened state Right-to-Work laws.
She’s pretty smooth at hearing, basically telling everyone what they wanted to hear. Of course, we know we can’t trust what anyone says at Congressional hearings — from Supreme Court justices to lowly agency heads. But truth is not important for Republicans these days: just supporting Trump no matter how crazy and dishonest his nominees are.
I haven’t heard about whether she changed any of the minds of her supporters or detractors, but if I was a bettin’ man, I’d say she’ll have enough support to be confirmed.
There was plenty of room for her to wax eloquent about the American dream and putting workers first and America first and states’ rights and building opportunity for workers, blah, blah, blah. Lots of “I don’t know anything” and “I’ll look into the issue,” and “I’ll happy to work with you.” (The hearing equivalent of “bless your heart, but I have no intention of taking this subject seriously.”)
But Bernie Sanders summed up the main question in his opening remarks:
“Will you be a rubber stamp for the anti-worker agenda of Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and other multibillionaires who are blatantly anti-union, they don’t make any bones about it, or will you stand with working families all over the country?”
Chavez-DeRemer has strong support from Teamsters’ leadership. The New York Times noted that “The unusual nature of Ms. Chavez-DeRemer’s nomination was apparent in the makeup of the audience in the committee room, which was packed with members of the Teamsters union, identifiable by their logo-emblazoned fleeces and jackets.”
Most of the Senators’ questions focused on a few major areas:
The PRO Act
As a Congresswoman from Oregon, Chavez DeRemer had co-sponsored the Protecting the Right to Organize Act (PRO Act), upsetting many Republicans, including at least one Republican on the HELP Committee, Rand Paul. The PRO Act restores the right of workers to freely and fairly form a union and bargain together for changes in the workplace. It also would have given workers power to weaken state “Right to Work” laws.
“Will you be a rubber stamp for the anti-worker agenda of Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and other multibillionaires who are blatantly anti-union, they don’t make any bones about it, or will you stand with working families all over the country?” – Senator Bernie Sanders
Chairman Bill Cassidy (R-LA) and Rand Paul asked her about her support for the PRO Act. Cassidy claimed that the PRO Act was not pro-worker, it was pro-labor union. (which is apparently a bad thing.)
She tried unsuccessfully to wriggle out of it by saying that Congress makes the laws, not the Secretary of Labor. Nice try. Called out on that excuse, she finally responded that she didn’t necessarily support the bill as written, but as a then-representative from Oregon, she saw the PRO Act as a vehicle that would enable her to be “at the table” for much-needed discussions about our outdated labor laws. Cassidy also got her to ensure that she wouldn’t do anything to change franchise law that would make corporate level (eg MacDonalds) responsible for the sins of their franchisees.
Paul claimed that Right-to-Work laws were basic states’ rights. She answered “yes” when he asked her “Do you no longer support the part that would get rid of Right-to-Work laws”
Ashly Moody (R-FL), who filled the Senate seat vacated by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, also asked her if she would defend Right to Work and states rights? She assured Moody she would.
And Alabama’s Tommy Tuberville asked her about union bosses using dues for politics. After a nauseating “Hey Coach!!” she assured him that union members should be aware of where their dues money is going.
Bernie Sanders came to the rescue of the PRO Act, noting that unions have enormous support in this country. Millions of workers want to join unions, but they can’t because corporations break the law every day, using firings, captive audience meetings and plant closings to defeat organizing efforts. The PRO Act, he explained, simply prohibits illegal behavior so workers can make a choice. “So do you support the PRO Act?
Chavez DeRemer started with “I support the American worker. President Trump…,” but Bernie cut her off: “I’m gathering that you no longer support the PRO Act. That you support the American worker, that’s what everyone here will say.”
John Hickenlooper (D-CO) asked her if we didn’t need more workers in unions to expand the middle class? She said that giving workers the choice over whether to belong to a union is the goal. If employee chooses, they have the right. If they choose not to join a union, they have the right. Flexibility is key. We need to keep American worker first and foremost, blah, blah
NLRB
Chris Murphy (D-CT) asked her if the NLRB is unconstitutional as Musk and Bezos are arguing. Chavez DeRemer non-answered again that she’s “not an attorney.” And DOL is separate from the NLRB (in case he didn’t know that.) Both have their own roles to play and she promised to “take the NLRB seriously.” Because it’s important.
Trump recently illegally fired NLRB Chair Gwen Wilcox, leaving the Board without a quorum to operate. Bernie Sanders asked if she was concerned that Trump’s illegal firing of NLRB Chair made the NLRB non-functioning, thereby ensuring that workers have no one to go to when their employer violated the law, and whether Wilcox’s firing was illegal. She agreed that the NLRB is important, but Trump has the “right to exercise his executive power.”
Tim Kaine (D-VA) asked her if she thought the President should ensure that the NLRB his able to operate. And she responded “yes.” Trump also incapacitated the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission by illegally firing a member, and Kaine asked if she thought American workers should have equal opportunity. She again answered “yes,” and yes again to whether the President should ensure that the EEOC was able to operate. She also agreed to support DOL programs that support veterans who are being harmed by Trump’s policies.
Minimum Wage
Bernie was the first to ask her if she supported raising the minimum wage. She again tried to avoid answering, explaining to the Senators once again that Congress makes the laws and she will enforce the law. “Buy what’s your opinion?” he asked. She admitted that the minimum wage is probably too low, but conditions are different in Portland, where the minimum wage is almost $16/hour, and Grants Pass (as small city in Oregon).
Andy Kim (D-NJ) asked her if $7.25 (the current minimum wage) was enough to live on in 2025, and she repeated something about big cities and small cities have different needs. Kim asked her if $15,000 a year is enough to live anywhere in the country? And he pressed on asking about the affordability of housing? What percent of income to housing? Is 50% of someone’s income too high to pay for housing?
She responded that she didn’t know, but she wanted to help workers. Because workers are important. Good to know.
He finished by asking her whether all American workers entitled to paid leave? She rambled on about the American Dream, and states rights and ensuring that workers are able to keep their hard earned dollars and they need skills and opportunity and….
Kim cut her off: “My constituents are working two to three jobs. They just want dignity.”
Impoundment
Several Senators, led by Patty Murray (D-WA), who is also Ranking Member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, asked whether she would go along with the President illegally impounding funds instead of spending them in the way that Congress had directed. She responded that she couldn’t believe that the President would ever ask her to violate the law.
Federal Employees
Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE) asked her about the mass DOGE firings federal employees. Not only do the firings impact federal workers’ families, but now we have plane crashes and disease outbreaks. How are fired federal workers supposed to deal with their own unemployment, fear and trauma. Are federal employees not American workers?
“Are federal employees not American workers?” — Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester
Angela Alsobrooks (D-MD) asked whether she would support collective bargaining contracts with federal employees that Trump had canceled because they were allegedly “lame duck contracts” that were somehow invalid. Asked whether she knew of any statute that limits collective bargaining agreements no matter when they were signed, she assured Alsobrooks that she would consult lawyers and fairly and fully enforce the law.
Alsobrooks then if she agreed with Trump that people with mental disabilities hired by the FAA were to blame for the recent airplane crash in DC that killed 67 men, women and children? Chavez DeRemer declined to comment on what the President said, but said she supports the President. Alsobrooks reminded her that the same personnel language that Trump attacked had existed under Trump’s first administration and asked whether she supports disabled people working for the FAA. “Of course,” she responded.
Finally, Alsobrooks noted that Elon had offered federal employees a buyout so they could move from “low productivity” federal jobs to “higher productively” private sector jobs?
“Are federal jobs low productivity?” Chavez DeRemer: No.
Confidential Information at DOL
Murray also expressed grave concerns that Elon Musk was attempting to get access to confidential OSHA and BLS data. And that Musk is in position to use confidential govt data to compete against his competitors. Asked if she would protect private information, Chavez-DeRemer claimed that she hasn’t even been to the Department of Labor yet, and knows nothing about the issue except what she read in the paper (and hopefully on Confined Space), and never discussed the issue with Trump, but that she would support the agency (whatever that means.)
Chris Murphy (D-CT) pointed out that OSHA was conducting several investigations into Trump businesses and referenced the high injury rate at SpaceEx. He asked if she would deny Elon access to information at OSHA and other DOL agencies about investigations into his companies?
She again claimed not to know anything about the issue, but that the President has the power to choose his advisors, and assured him that, if confirmed, she would “look into the issue.”
Murphy wasn’t satisfied: “This is simple.” That Musk guy has an interest in this info and you can’t say you will not give access to business owners who have interests?
“That’s up to the President,” she claimed. I know nothing. Again, I’ll look into it if confirmed.
Murphy pressed on: If the President asks you to illegally give a friend access to information, what would you do? Would you say no?
Chavez-DeRemer was again SHOCKED that anyone would suggest that the President would ask anyone to do anything illegal, and assured him that she’d look into the issue. But she’s not a lawyer, so she’d have to check with DOL attorneys.
Not satisfied, Murphy assured her that you don’t have to be an attorney to know what’s illegal and unethical.
Maggie Hassan (D-NH) also expressed concern about Musk gaining access to DOL’s confidential information after spending almost a quarter billion dollars to elect Trump while being investigated by OSHA.
In defense of Elon, Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) went on a incomprehensible rant about how the Biden administration had given Musk a contract, so how is that a conflict of interest? And Democrats take money from billionaires too. And the Democrats didn’t invite Teamsters President Sean O’Brien to their Convention. And Dems lie! Democrats accuse Republicans of being criminals. Dems spread fear. Democrats are ridiculous!
Child Labor
Asked by Murray whether she would support the Biden Administration’s crackdown on illegal child labor, she agreed that illegal child labor was a bad thing. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI) asked her if she would commit to not removing important child labor information from the Wage and Hour website. She agreed that information is important.
Jim Banks (R-IN) clamed that Biden had ignored exploited kids. Moody from Florida reminded her that child labor is terrible and all the sex trafficking, rape, abuse, etc., that we’ve been hearing about was all Biden’s fault, and his administration refused to work with the states to address child labor. Asked if she would enforce child labor laws and work with states, Chavez-DeRemer agreed 100 percent and noted again that she is not a supporter of child labor. Good, Moody agreed, because We The People did not give our consent to child labor (except of course, for those states that are making child labor great again.)
Josh Hawley (R-MO) asked if she would go after these companies who fire US workers and exploit children, calling for higher penalties for illegal child labor. She said yes.
OSHA
Baldwin brought up the first question about workplace safety, noting that nurses face a lot of workplace violence, that OSHA was working on a standard, and would she commit to issue a workplace violence standard (or proposal?) by next June? She claimed that she hadn’t looked at the issue yet.
Susan Collins (R-ME) went on a rant about how OSHA’s proposal to protect Emergency Responders would put volunteer fire departments out of business endangering rural America. She said she’d look into it.
Hassen noted that workers in this country need to be safer and asked her how she would protect them. Chavez-DeRemer assured her that no one expects to go to work and get hurt and that she would work with the experts at DOL to ensure OSHA’s mission. Hassan said she appreciated that Chavez DeRemer recognizes the expertise of Department of Labor staff.
Unfortunately, no one asked her about OSHA’s proposal to protect worker against heat.
Apprenticeships
Everyone seemed to agree that not every American needed to go to college, but that there needed to be a system to encourage apprenticeships. Congress had provided money for “registered” apprenticeships (that are regulated and overseen by the Labor Department), and she assured Senators that she would continue those programs and spend the money Congress had appropriated for that purpose.
Other Issues
Several questions about enabling more legal immigration, especially H2B visas that allow foreign workers to work in tourism in Maine, fisheries in Alaska and technology in Alabama. (We hate immigrants, unless they’re filling labor shortages in our states!)
Tuberville asked whether she was pro-life. (Chavez-DeRemer worked at a Planned Parenthood clinic in her early 20s. ) The answer was “Yes.” And Murkowski noted that people can’t work if they don’t have paid child care.
Conclusion
So, there you have it. Will she be confirmed. My bet is yes. Maybe Rand Paul votes against her, but there will be enough Democrats to support her — some (understandably) fearing someone much worse if she’s defeated.
She can’t significantly vary from the Trump agenda, so if she is half-way decent, she will eventually quit or be fired.